Exploring India's Startup Ecosystem with Kunal Shah

In a recent episode of Lenny’s podcast, Lenny sat down with Kunal Shah, the CEO and founder of CRED, a leading FinTech startup in India valued at over $6 billion. Kunal is a renowned entrepreneur and product leader with a massive following on social media, where he shares profound insights on business, product development, and life. With a background in philosophy, Kunal brings a unique perspective to the tech world, which was evident throughout their conversation. They dove deep into the nuances of building successful products in India, the success of Indian CEOs in the U.S., and the unique challenges and opportunities within the Indian startup ecosystem.

The Delta 4 Framework: A Blueprint for Success

Kunal introduced his Delta 4 framework, a simple yet powerful concept for evaluating product success. Unlike the vague notion of a product needing to be “10x better,” the Delta 4 framework offers a measurable benchmark. Kunal explained that when a product’s efficiency score is at least four points higher than its predecessor (on a scale of 1 to 10), it achieves three critical outcomes:

  1. Irreversibility: Users won’t revert to the old solution.
  2. High Tolerance for Failure: Users are more forgiving of minor issues.
  3. Unique Brag-worthy Proposition (UBP): Users can’t stop talking about it, leading to organic growth with low or zero customer acquisition costs (CAC).

For example, Kunal compared the efficiency of taking a cab (rated a 3) to using Uber (rated a 9), illustrating a Delta 4+ product that transformed user behavior. Conversely, he noted that buying a suit online versus offline often fails to achieve this delta, resulting in a reversible product with low user tolerance. This framework, rooted in Kunal’s philosophical musings and inspired by concepts like entropy and evolutionary biology, is a practical tool for founders to assess whether their product will resonate in the market.

Why Indian CEOs Thrive in the U.S.

One of the most striking parts of the discussion was about the success of Indian-born CEOs leading major U.S. companies like Microsoft (Satya Nadella), Alphabet (Sundar Pichai), Adobe, IBM, Palo Alto Networks, and even Starbucks. Kunal attributes this phenomenon to a combination of factors:

  • Immigrant Hunger: Indian immigrants often come from humble backgrounds with no privilege, driving a relentless work ethic and a chip on their shoulder to succeed.
  • Cultural Emphasis on Logic and Math: India’s societal appreciation for engineering and logic creates a strong foundation for technical and analytical roles.
  • Adherence to ‘Dharma’: Drawing from Indian mythology, Kunal explained that these CEOs embody the qualities of Vishnu, the god of sustenance, maintaining the core principles (or “dharma”) of the companies they lead. Unlike founders (Brahma, the creator) or disruptors (Shiva, the destroyer), these CEOs excel at scaling and sustaining, balancing high values with strategic adaptability.

Kunal highlighted a two-by-two framework of values and obedience, positioning successful Indian CEOs as oscillating between Rama (high values, high obedience) and Krishna (high values, low obedience). This balance allows them to uphold a company’s core ethos while innovating strategically, as seen in Satya Nadella’s handling of the OpenAI crisis.

Building products in India requires a fundamentally different approach from Western markets. Kunal outlined several key distinctions:

DAUs vs. ARPU: The Indian Paradox

India’s low per capita income (around $2,500 annually) makes it challenging to generate high average revenue per user (ARPU), even as daily active users (DAUs) skyrocket due to cheap data and high smartphone penetration. Global giants like Meta may boast millions of users in India but struggle to monetize them effectively, with ARPU as low as $3–$4 per user annually. This dynamic forces Indian startups to focus on scale and explore multiple revenue streams rather than relying on high ARPU.

The Perception of Time

Kunal shared a fascinating insight: “No Indian has ever been paid an hourly salary in their entire life.” Unlike in the U.S., where hourly wages instill a tangible sense of time’s value, Indian culture lacks this concept. Many Indian languages don’t even have a word for “efficiency.” This affects consumer behavior, with users prioritizing cost savings over time savings, making it harder to monetize time-based services like subscriptions.

Low Trust Markets and the Power of Super Apps

India, like many developing nations, is a low-trust market where consumers are wary of new brands due to weak institutional protections. This leads to a concentration of trust in established brands, giving rise to super apps and conglomerates like Tata, which spans industries from salt to cars. Kunal noted that in low-trust markets, brand reputation is paramount, and startups must build trust before expecting consumer adoption.

The Curse of Focus

In contrast to the U.S. mantra of “focus on one thing,” Kunal argues that focus is a curse in Asian markets. With low ARPU, startups must diversify offerings to maximize revenue. Additionally, in low-trust environments, consumers gravitate toward brands that do many things well, reinforcing the super app model.

Challenges and Opportunities in India’s Startup Ecosystem

India’s startup scene is vibrant and full of potential, but it faces unique challenges:

  • Risk Aversion: India’s long-term, collectivist culture makes it risk-averse, with failure (e.g., startup layoffs) often stigmatized. Kunal noted that a failed founder may struggle to find a spouse due to societal perceptions of risk-taking.
  • Low Female Labor Participation: With one of the lowest female labor participation rates globally, India has an opportunity to leverage AI and remote work to create new economic opportunities for women.
  • Youthful Demographics: India’s young, tech-savvy population is a massive asset, but as the first generation to embrace entrepreneurship, they are still learning to navigate risk and failure.

Kunal sees AI as a double-edged sword: it can democratize expertise and boost productivity, but rapid automation could disrupt jobs if India doesn’t adapt quickly. He advocates for making AI proficiency a baseline requirement for all roles, ensuring the workforce remains competitive.

Lessons from Building CRED

Kunal’s journey with CRED, which processes over 20% of India’s credit card bill payments, offered valuable lessons:

  • Target the Right Audience: CRED focused on India’s top 25 million families, who have higher per capita income and global tastes, rather than chasing China’s population-driven scale.
  • Evolving as a Founder: Zero-to-one skills don’t automatically translate to scaling from 10 to 100. Founders must adapt, balancing creativity with stability to meet the expectations of growth-stage investors.
  • Uncertainty Absorption: Kunal views founders as “uncertainty absorbers” for employees, investors, and customers, a role that becomes more demanding as a company scales.

The Power of Curiosity and Second-Order Thinking

Kunal emphasized curiosity as a cornerstone of growth, likening it to a willingness to embrace problems without clinging to expertise. He shared an example of asking ChatGPT about animals that survived over 100 million years, revealing traits like adaptability, high conversion rates, and metabolic flexibility—qualities startups can emulate.

He also championed second-order thinking, the ability to predict the ripple effects of decisions. Kunal recommends asking “why” questions to foster this mindset, such as exploring the historical origins of everyday objects or societal practices. For example, asking kids “Why do humans wear jewelry?” encourages deep, historical analysis that builds critical thinking.

Contrarian Views and Life Lessons

In the “contrarian corner” segment, Kunal shared his belief that wealth is stored energy, not a zero-sum game. Since the Industrial Revolution, humans have converted energy (kinetic, solar, etc.) into wealth, and AI and nuclear fission will amplify this. He argues that chasing wealth equality is futile; instead, creating abundant wealth benefits everyone.

Reflecting on failure, Kunal shared that his family’s financial crisis at age 15 shaped his drive to succeed. He views failure as a daily reality for entrepreneurs, but one that teaches resilience and lessons worth sharing.

Final Thoughts

Kunal’s insights offer a masterclass in understanding India’s startup landscape and the broader dynamics of building impactful products. His Delta 4 framework, philosophical lens, and emphasis on curiosity and second-order thinking are universally applicable, whether you’re in Bengaluru or Silicon Valley. For aspiring founders, Kunal’s advice is clear: embrace risk, learn from failure, and share your learnings to democratize knowledge.

To hear more from Kunal, follow him on social media, where he shares unique perspectives across platforms. And if you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the podcast on your favorite app or YouTube, and consider leaving a review to help others discover it.

This episode was sponsored by WorkOS and Orb. WorkOS simplifies adding enterprise features like SAML authentication to your SaaS app, with AuthKit offering a modern alternative to Auth0. Learn more at workos.com/lenny. Orb provides a flexible billing engine for usage-based pricing, trusted by companies like Vercel. Check it out at withorb.com/lenny with promo code Lenny.

Podcast Transcript: Exploring India’s Startup Ecosystem with Kunal Shah

Host (Lenny): Welcome to the podcast! Today, my guest is Kunal Shah, one of the most well-known and respected entrepreneurs and product leaders in India and around the world. Kunal is the CEO and founder of CRED, a FinTech startup based in India, valued at over $6 billion, processing over 20% of all credit card bill payments in India a couple of years ago. Prior to CRED, he founded three other startups, including Freecharge, which he sold for over $400 million to Snapdeal. Kunal is a deep thinker, with a background in philosophy, which comes across clearly in his advice. In our conversation, we dive into what makes working and building in India different from the US and other markets, why trust is essential, why people in India are more risk-averse, the biggest challenges and opportunities in the India market, why so many Indian immigrants succeed as CEOs in tech, and what we can learn from that. We also discuss why companies in India grow DAUs but not ARPUs, how to stay curious, the power of second-order thinking, stories of failure, contrarian takes, and so much more. If you enjoy this podcast, don’t forget to subscribe on your favorite podcasting app or YouTube to avoid missing future episodes. A big thank you to Cyan, my ET, for making the connection to Kunal. With that, I bring you Kunal Shah after a short word from our sponsors.

[Sponsor Break: WorkOS]
This episode is brought to you by WorkOS. If you’re building a SaaS app, your customers will eventually ask for enterprise features like SAML authentication and SCIM provisioning. WorkOS makes it fast and painless to add these features. Their APIs are easy to understand, so you can ship quickly and get back to building other features. Companies like Vercel, Webflow, and Loom are powered by WorkOS. They recently launched AuthKit, a complete authentication and user management service—a modern alternative to Auth0 with better pricing and more flexible APIs. AuthKit is stunning out of the box, fully customizable, and free for any developer up to 1 million users. Check it out at workos.com/lenny.

[Sponsor Break: Orb]
This episode is also brought to you by Orb, a flexible usage-based billing engine that lets you evolve pricing with ease. The fastest-growing product teams at companies like Vercel and Replit trust Orb to power their pricing changes and launches. Use Orb to ship faster, stop worrying about billing, and evolve pricing with ease. Check it out at withorb.com/lenny with promo code Lenny to skip the demo line.

Lenny: Kunal, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.

Kunal Shah: Lenny, thank you so much for having me, and I’m a huge fan of everything that you do. Like I said before, India is a huge beneficiary of what you do. We’ve all learned the art of product by figuring it out, watching content here and there, and reading some stuff. Kudos to everything you do. You do a fabulous job of taking the information asymmetry of the art of product and making it accessible to many of us across the world. Thank you.

Lenny: Wow, I really appreciate that. This is already feeling great to me. It turns out this podcast has a huge audience in India, as do you. I feel like this conversation is going to be really special and meaningful to a lot of people. I want to start with something tactical. There’s a product framework you came up with that I absolutely love, and I’ve shared it with at least 30 founders over the last couple of years. This is actually how I discovered you initially; I heard about this thing, and I’m like, “Who’s this guy Kunal Shah?” And look at us now, chatting. Could you explain this framework briefly and how you’ve used it or recommend people apply it? Oh, and by the way, it’s called Delta 4.

Kunal: Yeah, it’s called the Delta 4 framework, and it’s actually quite simple. A lot of people say your product has to be 10x better, but it’s not very measurable. You don’t know if you’re 10x better unless you’re delusional. The trigger for me was that I’m an unusual tech founder in India. I’m the only humanities/philosophy major founder in India who’s got into tech. I often wondered if my peers or those ahead of me were significantly smarter academically or otherwise. Why did I become successful with my first startup, Freecharge, which I exited in 2015 for nearly $450 million? I was like, “What would make this happen?” Because I wouldn’t qualify into this super league of top IIT rankers in India. That got me onto this philosophical quest to find out what makes things successful.

The simple framework is this: imagine the old way of taking a cab ride versus Uber. If I asked you to give me the score of efficiency for Uber versus the old cab, what would you say, Lenny?

Lenny: Out of 10? I’d give a cab three and Uber a nine.

Kunal: Exactly. Every time you see a product efficiency delta greater than or equal to four, three things happen: it’s irreversible, you have a high tolerance for it to fail, and it has what I call the Unique Brag-worthy Proposition (UBP). Humans can’t stop talking or sharing about it, leading to lower or zero CAC. Think about how you discovered Google—not through an ad, but because someone showed you the demo, and you were like, “Oh my God, this is crazy.” That’s what’s happening with OpenAI and LLMs; it feels like magic, a Delta 4 product.

But failure is the real problem. Making everything tech doesn’t make things more efficient. For example, buying a suit online versus offline—what’s the efficiency score?

Lenny: I’ve done that, and it was a terrible fit. I’d give buying a suit online a five and offline a seven.

Kunal: That’s crazy because you’ve broken the principle. It’s a tech product, but the efficiency is better offline. When the delta is less than four, it’s reversible, people don’t brag about it, and there’s zero tolerance for failure. You’re probably never going to buy a suit online again. It’s a simple framework, and many VCs in the US use it in training programs for analysts. In India, we’re not applying it enough. You can apply it to features, products, or businesses. It’s derived from studies around entropy and evolutionary biology—when does a species get disrupted, or why does low entropy require high entropy growth? That’s a day-long podcast on its own.

Lenny: We’ll save that for a future follow-up, diving into the psychology of Delta 4. To summarize, because it’s such a powerful framework, I use it to convince founders why their product isn’t taking off. They might think their product is better than Excel, but unless it’s four points better on a 1-to-10 scale, no one will care. People are busy; they won’t dig into something marginally better.

Kunal: Absolutely.

Lenny: I want to shift gears and talk about Indian CEOs in the US. The CEOs of Microsoft, Alphabet, Adobe ($250 billion company), IBM ($170 billion), Palo Alto Networks ($100 billion), even Starbucks ($100 billion), and Twitter before Elon took over—all were born in India and immigrated to the US. I think this is the largest ethnic group of tech CEOs besides white dudes in the US. Why do you think Indian immigrants are so successful in business and tech, especially in high positions, and what can we learn from that?

Kunal: It’s a great question. I’ve had the fortune to meet many of these individuals and explore what went on. These are conjectures, but a few things stand out. Immigrants generally have a chip on their shoulder and go through immense struggle to succeed without privilege, coming from humble backgrounds with no money. That hunger is real for many immigrants, but India’s appreciation for math and logic gives an edge. Engineering and doctor roles are highly valued, while as a philosophy major, I was a write-off for society. The filtering criteria in India are intense.

There’s an interesting framework from Devdutt Patnaik, who applies Indian mythology to management. He talks about three major gods: Brahma (creation), Shiva (destruction), and Vishnu (sustenance). Vishnu’s avatars, like Rama and Krishna, represent different archetypes. If you create a two-by-two of high/low values and high/low obedience, Krishna (high values, low obedience) suits entrepreneurs, while Rama (high values, high obedience) suits sustainers. Many Indian CEOs excel because they follow the founders’ dharma, sustaining and scaling without diluting core principles. They move between Krishna and Rama, evolving companies while maintaining humility. This balance will lead to more Indian CEOs, as they have role models who uphold the founders’ vision.

Lenny: I love how you combine a two-by-two with Indian mythology—a microcosm of your philosophy and tech blend. It makes sense. You mentioned Jim Collins’ Good to Great and level five leadership, where leaders prioritize the business over personal legacy. Is your sense that these CEOs consciously think about this, or is it in the ether of growing up in India?

Kunal: I don’t think they consciously think about it, but they’d agree if they heard it. It’s part of their cultural value system. Long-term thinking drives good behavior, unlike short-term focus. India’s 95% arranged marriage rate and less than 1% divorce rate reflect this long-term orientation, building families and values over attraction.

Lenny: The US could use some of that. You mentioned that 90% of startups fail, and the risk is higher in India. What impact does that have, and how do people avoid it?

Kunal: Long-term societies are naturally risk-averse. Great CEOs don’t always make great founders because sustaining differs from creating or destroying. India is changing—founders are respected, unicorns celebrated, and we have a National Startup Day. But core behavior remains. With arranged marriages, a failed founder struggles to find a spouse, curtailing risk appetite. For example, in a CPG company, someone leading a zero-to-one project that fails after five years may not get promoted, while someone managing a stable brand thrives. We don’t celebrate risk-takers yet, but it’s changing.

Lenny: Super interesting. In Portugal, I saw that explorers like Vasco da Gama were buried alongside royalty in churches, giving risk-takers high status. That’s a powerful way to encourage progress.

Kunal: Exactly. When risk-takers get the highest status, the country appreciates it, as we’re all seeking social validation.

Lenny: Let’s keep talking about India and what surprises people about building products there. You mentioned the difference between DAUs and ARPUs—easy to get users, hard to make revenue. Why is this, and how does it change product building?

Kunal: ARPU is tied to per capita income—$2,500 annually in India. You can’t make $100 per user when income is so low. Global companies love India for cheap data and high smartphone penetration, getting 500 million or a billion users from Asia. But ARPU is low—Meta might make $3–$4 per user per year. India becomes an MAU farm but low on ARPU. Indian founders copying Western models expecting high ARPU fail unless they expand abroad. Netflix got users but struggled to monetize due to free content and low willingness to pay.

Lenny: So, when evaluating startups, 100 million users in India shouldn’t be treated like 100 million in the US.

Kunal: Absolutely. Another factor is the value of time. No Indian has ever been paid an hourly salary. Ask any Indian their income per hour—they can’t answer. This affects paying for time-based services like subscriptions. Many Indian languages lack a word for “efficiency,” so valuing time is hard.

Lenny: That’s fascinating. You also said focus is a curse in Asian markets, unlike the US advice to focus on one thing. Why?

Kunal: Low ARPU means you must do many things to generate revenue. In low-trust markets, consumers are wary of new brands due to weak institutions. If you fall in a US coffee shop, you might sue; in India, you’re just worried about paying. Trust concentrates in super apps or brands like Tata, which does everything from salt to cars. The joy of trying new things is low in low-trust nations.

Lenny: So, brand is exponentially more important in India. You mentioned Chyavanprash, the oldest brand, tied to a person’s name, like JP Morgan in the US.

Kunal: Yes, trust comes from names with reputation. India’s oldest brands often carry the founder’s name.

Lenny: What are the most pressing challenges and opportunities for Indian startups, and where will things evolve?

Kunal: Challenges and opportunities are the same. Low female labor participation is a challenge but an opportunity for AI-driven remote work businesses. Low per capita income is a challenge, but AI can enhance expertise, as Satya says, making it available “in the air.” India’s young, tech-savvy demographic is an asset, but as the first entrepreneurial generation, we’ll make mistakes. Layoffs are national news, unlike in startup cultures elsewhere. We’re a remix of collectivist and individualistic societies.

Lenny: I love your line that “inefficiency is the largest employer in the world.” Let’s talk about CRED. You had three startups before, and you’ve been building CRED for six years. What have you learned or changed your mind about?

Kunal: CRED’s insight was focusing on 25 million families with higher per capita income and global tastes, not chasing China’s population scale. I had the luxury of a prior success, raising $25 million for our Series A. I learned that zero-to-one companies don’t naturally scale to 10-to-100. Founders must evolve, and most CRED employees haven’t seen bigger businesses, so we gentrify the org to instill reliable practices. Entrepreneurs are uncertainty absorbers for employees, investors, and customers, and expectations change with scale. Profit pools reveal what a country values—India has few retailers in its top 1000 companies, unlike consumption-driven Western markets.

Lenny: I love the idea of founders as uncertainty absorbers. You mentioned Zuck playing Shiva, destroying to rebuild. Brian Chesky and I discussed how founders start micromanaging, then delegate, then take control again. Is that inevitable?

Kunal: It’s the universe’s cycle—Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh. Every yuga goes through creation, sustenance, and destruction. It’s the circle of life.

Lenny: Beautiful. On CRED, people on Twitter often asked, “When will you become profitable?” Why is this so common in India when it’s rare elsewhere?

Kunal: India’s business culture is rooted in trading—buy low, sell high, profit immediately. CapEx-heavy distribution and monetizing later are unfamiliar. Large losses shock people; my own dad didn’t respect me until I built a profitable company. Internet businesses, where VCs fund distribution and brand before monetization, are new. Only 2–3% of India’s market cap is tech, versus 27–30% in the US. We’re the first generation proving large, profitable tech companies, and public perception lags behind.

Lenny: How do you stay positive amid trolling and doubt, and what’s your advice for founders facing this?

Kunal: I get calls from founders getting hate—I’m the go-to person. I tell them we wouldn’t have made it if we cared about everyone’s criticism. If someone better than me critiques, I’ll flip and evolve. But reacting to uninformed comments is pointless. Noble gases, with low valency, are hard to react with—that’s the mindset.

Lenny: For all its challenges, why is India the most promising market to build for?

Kunal: Everything is going our way—digital public infrastructure, government support, extraordinary people. Despite Twitter noise, the ecosystem is vibrant. I wish I could intern with Brian Chesky to learn, but we figure things out ourselves. I’d love a “product decision theater” to watch leaders like Zuck or Tim Cook make calls.

Lenny: That’d be amazing. You talk a lot about curiosity—why is it so important?

Kunal: Curiosity shows you’re not proud of expertise and are excited by problems you can’t solve. People stop growing when they prioritize expertise over curiosity. I asked ChatGPT which animals survived 100 million years: sharks, horseshoe crabs, crocodiles. They share three traits: reducing metabolism at will, high conversion rates for food, and adapting to environmental changes. Curiosity drives adaptation, creating information asymmetry—wealth.

Lenny: That’s a blog post waiting to happen. Who do you look up to in business?

Kunal: I hate the word “favorite” because it limits the mind. I learn from everyone solving hard problems. We ask our team monthly, “What hard problems did you solve?” Successful people have more content because they focus on displacement, not busyness. Predators burn the least calories to earn the most.

Lenny: Anurag Verma on Twitter asked, what are your favorite sources of content for learning?

Kunal: I come up with conjectures and seek proof. For example, I hypothesized that vice-driven businesses do philanthropy to gain respectability. I asked GPT for 50 examples. I explore chemistry, physics, human behavior—anywhere to find universal principles. Every book makes your brain poorer for the next, pushing you to learn more.

Lenny: Any recent topic you got sucked into?

Kunal: Second-order effects of AI, lab-grown diamonds, and how they might disrupt markets like pearls did. I explore parallels to predict outcomes.

Lenny: ChatGPT must love you. Any advice for asking great questions?

Kunal: Ask how people make great choices in their domain—hiring, marriage, etc. They may not articulate their mental models, but you’ll find insights. Second-order thinking questions, like what happens if everyone who took a COVID vaccine died, reveal how people predict butterfly effects. Playing strategy games as a kid or asking “why” questions—like “Why do humans wear jewelry?”—builds this skill.

Lenny: In the contrarian corner, what do you believe that few others agree with?

Kunal: Wealth is stored energy, not zero-sum. Humans convert energy—kinetic, solar—into wealth, especially since the Industrial Revolution. AI and nuclear fission will amplify this. Chasing wealth equality is futile; letting people create wealth benefits all. It’s the physics of wealth.

Lenny: Any failure story that taught you a lesson?

Kunal: My life is a series of failures—products, hirings, betrayals. Entrepreneurs forget the story but keep the lesson. My family’s financial crisis at 15 drove me to work and escape that failure. We learn from others’ failures too, as life’s too short to make all mistakes ourselves.

Lenny: That ties back to the chip on the shoulder. Any final thoughts?

Kunal: Share your learnings without fear of judgment. Your listeners are bright—sharing their evolution helps others succeed.

Lenny: With that, we’ve reached our lightning round. Ready?

Kunal: All set.

Lenny: Two or three books you’ve recommended most?

Kunal: Books on human behavior, evolutionary biology, and recovering from setbacks. Understanding humans—customers, investors, employees—is key. I don’t finish books; I drift into topics.

Lenny: One book to read over and over?

Kunal: I don’t believe in rereading. We evolve, and repeating becomes religious. Discover new perspectives instead.

Lenny: Favorite recent movie or TV show?

Kunal: Oppenheimer for Nolan’s craft and struggles. Nothing else stands out recently.

Lenny: Favorite interview question?

Kunal: Hypothetical second-order thinking questions, like “If everyone who took a COVID vaccine died tonight, what happens in 12 months?” Less than 10% of smart people answer well.

Lenny: What’s second-order thinking, simply?

Kunal: Judging the butterfly effect of an event accurately. It’s taxing unless trained early.

Lenny: Favorite product you’ve recently discovered?

Kunal: I’m looking forward to the Vision Pro. Zuck’s focus on utility makes Apple’s wasteful, status-driven positioning stronger.

Lenny: Favorite life motto?

Kunal: Life is transient—make it great, collect stories, and have no end to what you can share when old.

Lenny: Your Monday Motivations on Twitter—what’s motivating you?

Kunal: The internet’s full of fake motivation. Success comes from pain, struggle, and hard work—no shortcuts. My motivation is evolution, connecting dots, and solving harder problems.

Lenny: Where can folks find you online, and how can listeners be useful?

Kunal: Find me on social media as Kunal Shah—I’m different on each platform. Be helpful by tagging me on discoveries that make you go, “I didn’t know this.”

Lenny: Kunal, thank you so much for being here.

Kunal: Thank you for having me.

Lenny: Bye, everyone. Thank you for listening. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite app, and consider rating or reviewing to help others find the show. Find all episodes at lennyspodcast.com. See you in the next episode.